[Smash 4] Corrin vs. Bayonetta

[Flint]

This is the first time both of these characters are being used ever.

[Khina Bree]

Who is the other character? I know Bayonetta but not the other

[Flint]

Corrin from the Fire Emblem series. Known as "Kamui".

[Khina Bree]

When was that added? And why?

[Flint]

Bayonetta and Corrin is set to appear as downloadable playable characters in Super Smash Bros. 4 on February 3rd, 2016.

Bayonetta has been added because she had won the Smash Ballot vote. Corrin comes from the newest Fire Emblem game and it was theorized that Corrin was added for the same reason Roy was added in Melee, to promote the newest Fire Emblem game. Just like with Roy in Melee, Corrin will be playable in Super Smash Bros. 4 before being playable in his/her own game.

[Khina Bree]

I knew about Bayonetta.

But the promotion of FE games is getting ridiculous with smash.

I know it's been said many times, but we need LESS swordsmen

[mimgrim]

The less swordsmen argument/complaint is old and is biased as all get out.

There are many more characters who use their fists and feet to fight then there are swordies still yet no one complains about their being to many cqc (for lack of bein able o think of a better term off the top of my head).

And there's probably a good reason why the sword is the most used weapon by the characters that use weapons instead of other weapons, like ease to make (which is a valid reason).

[Zaio Volnutt]

*inserts lancers into the fray* problem solved not even joking.

[Flint]

That is not the same Mim. CQC fighters are not a good comparision to swordsmen. Why? Because the nuances between all the sword fighters are small. The difference of how Peach and Sheik play are very different, but they are CQC fighters as you say. They must have the same nature? Well, no.

Both of these characters have many different nuances to their gameplay that DO NOT make them play the same, even if they "use their hand and feet". And this would apply if you use Sheik and Captain Falcon, Mario and ZSS, or Bowser and Donkey Kong as an example. Bunching all of CQC fighters is not a good comparision to sword fighters.

Swordsmen on the other hand, if you are going to make a list of reasons that states what makes all the swords fighters different from one another, you're going to have a very small list. In fact, it's actually easier to list what makes them similiar than what makes them different. This is mainly addressing Fire Emblem sword fighters. Swords fighters such as Meta Knight and Link obviously play extremely different.

[mimgrim]

It is the same because the only swordies that actually play the same are Lucina to Marth and Dark Pit to Pitand that is because they are meant to be almost 1:1 clones with slight differences. Marth to Roy to Ike to Robin (obviously unable to comment on Corrin until his release) all play very differently from each other, though, and trying to play any of them like the other is not going to lead to good things. There are just as many similarities between CQC fighters as there are swordies, same with differences. Need I bring up how many CQC fighters have the same basic Nair or simillar jabs?

[Khina Bree]

That pretty well sums up my thoughts, Linty.

Mim, I have to say that your logic isn't sound. "Basic jabs" applies to every single Smash character, even those with a weapon. With the exception of "clone-like" characters, there's not a lot similar between some of the fighters without weapons, such as Mario and Sheik as an example. These two fighters may have a "basic jab" that a lot of fighters have, but do they combo at all the same or even close to one another? No.

While I am not opposed to weapon-users in Smash, I am annoyed that they add more sword users. There are plenty of other valid characters who use different styles of weaponry who would be a great addition to the line-up.

I don't know any from FE, but one character who always comes to mind: Magus from "Chrono Trigger." A scythe-wielding mage. That'd be an interesting Smash character to me.

[Flint]

Basic jabs and nairs is enough to bunch them as being similiar? Need I bring up how many of the sword fighters animation in their moves, recovery, and overall how they condition the opponent is very similiar? Also, a lot of the sword fighters have identical jabs and nairs too, don't exclude that information as well. You bring the fact that most are meant to be 1:1 clones, even in that situation, clone character can play different. i.e: Fox and Falco in Melee are clones but have opposite playstyles.

Roy to Marth do not play "very different" from each other, Roy has different animations in some of his moves and has more power to them (biggest difference as a character when compared to Marth), his overall conditioning and typical playstyle on characters in Smash 4 are very similiar to Marths. Ike and Robin comparison is fair but one can make the argument that Robin is barely a sword fighter, more like a spellcaster with a sword. Which is something that would be better to see since this character actually plays drastically differently, unlike most of the sword fighters who play relatively the same.

[Khina Bree]

Gotta agree about Robin. She's a spellcaster primarily with a short sword.

[Flint]

To Mim, I'm curious as to what you meant by "The less swordsmen argument/complaint is old and is biased as all get out." statement. You kind of just called Sketchy biased without any elaboration and kind of expected to run with it.

[mimgrim]

Well you also have CQC fighters that share similar Uairs, Bairs, Dtilts, Utilts, ect....

What I'm getting at is that if you don't consider CQC fighters as being similar enough to each and don't go as "we need list CQC fighters in this game" then you shouldn't for swordies either. Because both types have just as many similaraties and differences to each other.

Roy does not play like Marth in Smash 4. Marth is a speedy trapster who tries to keep you at the tip of his blade. Roy is a speed brute like character who wants to get you to the hilt of his blade for his maximum power and. Both are extremely different play-styles despite having some similarities in animation (like Mario and Luigi) and I highly disagree that he conditions the same way Marth does in 4. I could bring up similar arguments about Link and Toon Link as well if you want.

Clones can be different. Never said the couldn't. If you payed attention to what I actually typed you would have noticed the part were I said they were meant to be almost exactly 1:1 clones with only slight differences, and I'm talking then more about animation here. Fox and Falco and Melee were meant to have similar/same animations but were clearly meant to play differently from each other though. Dark Pit and Lucina were meant to both have similar animation and play like their original.

but do they combo at all the same or even close to one another? No.

I could ask you the same question about sword users and give you the same answer, easily. Even Roy and Marth combo differently from each other.

unlike most of the sword fighters who play relatively the same.

So the majority of Link, Toon Link, Pit, Dark Pit, Meta Knight, Marth, Lucina, Roy, Ike, Robin, Cloud, Mii Swordfighter and Shulk (13 characters out of a total of 56, soon to be 14 out of 58 which hardly seems like a lot to me, and to go even further lesse what other weapon users we have trying to be as strict as possible in what constitute as another weapon we have Mii Gunner, Mega Man, Duck Hunt, Villager, Palutena, Bowser Jr, RosaLuma, Olimar, GnW, and DDD which is total of 10 characters which is only 3 less then sword users, soon to be 4 less, which is hardly a sizable gap) play the same the ok that tells me all I need to know.

[Khina Bree]

Personally I wouldn't include Link, Toon Link or Dark Pit in the swordsmen category. A sword or sword-like weapon might be their primary attack, but their special attacks don't revolve around sword techniques or combos. Link/Toon Link has his Up B for his sword sure, but then he's got a bow and arrow, boomerang, and bombs.

The "swordsmen" in Smash all feature, and focus on, their blades and blade-techniques and combos.

[Flint]

Of course every character has differences and similarities, that wasn't my point. My point is that the Fire Emblem fighters share too many similarities with the exception being Robin.

Also, attacking with a different part of the sword makes them different? I see no difference considering they both attack with a lot of F-airs so it hardly matters, especially how they finish off the opponent with a forward smash. But I guess hitting a tipper and a strong forward smash (using the hilt instead of the tip) has a lot of nuance to it.

Your point of Mario and Luigi only helps my point. Both are CQC fighters and both are semi-clones yet thy play different. You can try to say how different the Fire Emblem sword fighters are but in the end, they pretty much play more similiar than any other character in the entire roster.

Also, why would you bring up Link and Toon Link? I've already mentioned that I refer to Fire Emblem sword fighters when I'm talking on this issue. But I'll gladly like to hear you preach to the choir. Let me repeat what I said about Robin since you seem to skip important information.

"Which is something that would be better to see since this character actually plays drastically differently". I don't see why you bring up Pit and Dark Pit since I don't consider them sword fighters. Why? Well they need to have swords before that can be called sword fighters. And even then, I don't see why you're bringing up the Links, Pits and Shulk. Because let me say it again.



Also I don't understand your last paragraph. Are you trying to make the case that Dedede, Olimar and Game & Watch play similiar? I'll holdon listing everyone reason why that's incorrect until I can actually understand what you're even trying to convey.

Also, you still didn't elaborate how Skechy was biased which was my main beef. I wouldn't have made my argument if you didn't accuse Sketchy of something without elaborating why. If you made a comment that you found the addition fine without accusing/starting an argument, I would have been completely fine with the comment.

[mimgrim]

Also, you still didn't elaborate how Skechy was biased which was my main beef.

I said the argument used is biased, not that he himself is biased. There is a difference. I was attacking the argument. Not the person.

Anywho, I don't like debating/arguing with people who like to twist my words around so I'm done here.

[Flint]

That happened.

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