Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

Post by Lord Beerus on Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:51 am

Hello Patrons of MADA,
:GodotSlide:
Today i would like to talk about why normal monsters are not dumb. Yes you heard me not dumb. People seem to think that normal monsters are dumb in their opinion.
But here are some facts as to why I do not think they are dumb at all.

:GodotSwing:
Angel Trumpeter is a level 4 normal tuner teched in commonly in a lot of decks (like ABCs and Karakuri for exapmle) for synchro summoning since it can be special summoned via Unexpected Dai. It makes no sense i would also like to add the fact of people calling normal monsters dumb is that they are also Calling Blue-eyes White Dragon, Dark Magician and Red-eyes Black Dragon Dumb. But if it were not for them we wouldn't have all the support we have for those three that we do now.
:GodotThink:
Might i also add to the fact that Metalfoes and Igknight's are Two Good Pendulum decks that their main deck monsters are in fact normal monsters are being called dumb even though Igknight for a time was in the meta.
:GodotSlam:
We also have cards like Unexpected Dai which summons out a Level 4 normal while you control no normal monsters. We also have Painful Decision which allows you to dump a normal monster and get the same monster as the one you dumped to your hand from your deck. White Elephant's Gift is another good normal monster support card all you need to do is tribute a normal monster and you draw 2 cards off of it.
:GodotNo:
We also have Exodia a former meta deck that Four of its five pieces are in fact normal monsters with the edition of Exodius the Ultimate Forbidden Lord which gains 1000 Attack for each "Normal" Monster in your graveyard it also goes in conjunction with Advnaced Ritual Art when you use rituals in your deck as the card allows you to dump as many normal monsters from your deck to your graveyard based on the level of the ritual monster you want to summon.
:GodotSwing:
Now who can't forgot good old Summoner's Art this is another normal monster support card mainly used when Qliphorts had 3 Qliphort Scouts which was also a normal monster that was used in Qliphorts and by doing so allowed Qli's to tech in other things.
:GodotThink:
We now get to the fusion monster First of the Dragons another good normal support monster which needs two Normal Monsters for it to be fusion summoned and it was used for a time when it first came out.
:GodotSip:
Non-Spellcasting Area is a spell card that makes all effect monsters effects useless and normal monster are not effected cause they have no effect.
:GodotSlam:
Also take not that Skill Drain does not work on normal monsters either as they have no effects.
:MilesBow:
I Wish you all a good day.


Signed
Pacifica Elise Northwest

_________________

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]|[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]|[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
Lord Beerus
MADA's Dragon Enthusiast

Posts : 965
Magician Credits : 242
Age : 17
Join date : 2015-03-21

Character sheet
Reputation:
ReputationMCsWinsLoss
Bounty0--
Notoriety000
Fame41221

http://gaminghub.forumotion.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

Post by α27theDemonKnight on Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:01 am

A decent read. I can say that this is one of them posts you put the most effort into. I mean you coulda presented the points in a bit more detail.
BUT, Great job!
Looking forward to more well thought out articles in the future.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"He's the hero MADA deserves,
but not the one it needs right now.
So we'll hunt him.
Because he can take it.
Because he's not our hero.
He's a silent guardian,
a watchful protector.
The Demon Knight"
avatar
α27theDemonKnight
The Dragon Destroyer
The Dragon Destroyer

Posts : 1373
Magician Credits : 7293
Age : 22
Join date : 2015-03-16
Location : Fusion Dimension

Character sheet
Reputation:
ReputationMCsWinsLoss
Bounty0--
Notoriety3003
Fame000

Back to top Go down

Re: Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

Post by DTBowser on Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:26 am

I been Preaching about Normal monsters for quite some time. most comments toward them have been the same either they are not good, they are too slow, they will never be Meta worthy, Yada yada yada. the thing is that's not what the game was originally about. it was about making a deck based around what you thought would work. losing a bunch and improving and back in the days when this game first started all we had to work from where normal monsters. it wasn't until Toon monsters hit the market when we found out about effect monsters. that said as said above there are many things that can be done with Normal monsters and i can make this what I'm saying now as long if not longer than that post but I've made my points many of times. one who sees Normal monsters as any less valuable than any other type of card is blinded by power. Potential lies within them, it just takes a little bit more work, effort, and imagination to unlock that potential. sure they are over shadowed by effect monsters. but i refuse to forget where the game originally started with\, what I started with. Dark Magician, Blue-eyes, and Red-eyes are perfect examples of this. they have support but as a player of the game its up to you to determine how to effectively utilize them. this goes for any deck effect or normal. either way i could go on forever but ill end this with "To Each His own".


Last edited by DTBowser on Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 am; edited 2 times in total
avatar
DTBowser

Posts : 7
Magician Credits : 40
Join date : 2015-07-06

Character sheet
Reputation:
ReputationMCsWinsLoss
Bounty0--
Notoriety000
Fame000

Back to top Go down

Re: Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

Post by Flip Flapper on Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:34 pm

i agree, they aint dumb. IRL i usually use a gemini deck actually (they count as normals before you activate their effects by giving up your normal summon for those who are not aware)

normal support cards are really cool

plus i gotta love dem classic cards like summoned skull (always been a fan of this one)

and the main bonus of the normal monsters, the FALVOR TEXT. I love reading thoose.

_________________
"Tim Drake and I had our differences, but I'll admit he was a great man. Despite his best efforts, over the past few years the Teen Titans have been losers, criminals—a joke. They epitomized what's wrong with this younger generation of so-called heroes—they didn't deserved to be called a "super-team". But we could do better. There are five of us. Five fingers make a fist. Join me... I dare you." - Damian Wayne, Teen titans rebirth.
With great power comes great responsibility
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
Flip Flapper
Warrior of Love and Justice

Posts : 2387
Magician Credits : 3822
Age : 16
Join date : 2014-10-29
Location : Sweden

Character sheet
Reputation:
ReputationMCsWinsLoss
Bounty0--
Notoriety12001
Fame000

Back to top Go down

Re: Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

Post by Kira Yoshikage on Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:56 pm

Normal monsters "Aren't dumb"?
"WELL HERE I GO!"
First of all, just listing decent support cards is NOT an effective arguement as to why normal monsters "Aren't dumb." A much better way to structure your arguement is to refer to actual decks that have seen the top tier, that utilized normal monsters in an effective way, such as Dino-Rabbit, Metalfoes and Hieratics. Igknights were never a top deck in the TCG, nor were they even tier-2. Also, Exodia has never even been close to being tier-1, so you CANNOT say that they were meta.
Non-Spellcasting Area has never seen the light of day on a competitive level, and neither has White Elephant's Gift. White Elephant is too slow, and there are much better cards you can play in it's place. Exodius has never been used for it's effect that supports Exodia and/or normal monsters, instead it's been used to shuffle monsters back into the deck from the graveyard, and make rank-10 plays. Qliphort Scout, Monolith, Igknights and a majority of the Metalfoes are indeed normal monsters, but they have Pendulum Effects, therefore they aren't really like your typical vanilla trash.
Finally, Red-Eyes has never been a top deck in the TCG, Blue-Eyes and Dark Magician has only been viable because they got good EFFECT MONSTERS and SPELL/TRAP cards that make the deck more consistent and playable, without relying entirely on the old, dated vanillas. The normal monsters are only included because they are required for interaction with the majority of their support. If there were better monsters that were treated as "Blue-Eyes White Dragon", "Dark Magician" and "Red-Eyes Black Dragon" then the normal monsters would literally be phased out of existance because effect monsters are just generally better.

As for what Bowser said...

"most comments toward them have been the same either they are not good, they are too slow, they will never be Meta worthy, Yada yada yada." That's because for the most part, they AREN'T good, they ARE slow, and the only ones that are really meta worthy are Rescue Rabbit targets, OR Metalfoes/Igknights/Qliphort Scout and Monolith. And no, Brilliant Fusion targets don't really count.
"back in the days when this game first started all we had to work from where normal monsters."
Ok, well, have fun ignoring most of the EFFECT MONSTERS from LoB and the Starter Decks that helped make up the metagame of early Yugioh, such as Man-Eater Bug, Trap Master, Wall of Illusion and Hane-Hane.

"it wasn't until Toon monsters hit the market when we found out about effect monsters."
....
There were effect monsters in LoB, and both starter decks. People learned about effect monsters BEFORE Toons hit the market, so you can't really make that ignorant arguement.

"i've made my points many of times. one who sees Normal monsters as any less valuable than any other type of card is blinded by power. Potential lies within them, it just takes a little bit more work, effort, and imagination to unlock that potential. sure they are over shadowed by effect monsters." Ok, so you are just now seeing "Potential" in vanillas outside of Rabbit targets and Metalfoes, in 2016? People are "Blinded by power" when they are clearly lackluster? Maybe you should look around at the top decks in Yugioh's history, and take a moment to realize how wrong that statement is.
"but i refuse to forget where the game originally started with\, what I started with." Maybe you should broaden your horizons. Maybe you should try a new deck, better cards, better strategy. Being blinded by nostalgia and having tunnel vision isn't really a good thing in any game. It's cool to have nostalgia, but don't let it dictate everything about the game, and how you play it.
Normal monsters for the most part are pretty worthless and dumb. The good ones are very few and far in between, and even then it's usually because of outside support, such as effect monsters, spells or traps. Normal monsters at their core are pretty bad tbh.

_________________
"Hidden in my heart, my passionate feelings are dreams of the future and the risk of death. The dream has began to move, with the limits already heard. The road leading to that place seems to me to bestruck with dazzlingly bright light." La-Vie, Freedom
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Smash mains: [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
Kira Yoshikage

Posts : 952
Magician Credits : 106
Age : 18
Join date : 2014-10-26
Location : Harlem, Georgia, U.S.A.
Admins Comment : Pft. this guy's a Turkey.

Character sheet
Reputation:
ReputationMCsWinsLoss
Bounty0--
Notoriety2001
Fame000

https://black-whirlwind-acad.forumotion.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

Post by Lord Beerus on Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:05 pm

"Finally, Red-Eyes has never been a top deck in the TCG,"

Blinded by being an idiot. I never stated Red-eyes were ever meta.

"Qliphort Scout, Monolith, Igknights and a majority of the Metalfoes are indeed normal monsters, but they have Pendulum Effects, therefore they aren't really like your typical vanilla trash."

Technically they are still vanilla's even with the pendulum effect

_________________

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]|[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]|[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
Lord Beerus
MADA's Dragon Enthusiast

Posts : 965
Magician Credits : 242
Age : 17
Join date : 2015-03-21

Character sheet
Reputation:
ReputationMCsWinsLoss
Bounty0--
Notoriety000
Fame41221

http://gaminghub.forumotion.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

Post by Kira Yoshikage on Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:12 pm

Pacifica Elise Northwest wrote:"Finally, Red-Eyes has never been a top deck in the TCG,"

Blinded by being an idiot. I never stated Red-eyes were ever meta.

Yet I never said that you stated that, actually. And I didn't even imply that, I was just stating a fact that further proved my arguement. I'm not being an idiot, I am stating a valid arguement. You're just coming off as ignorant with that statement.

_________________
"Hidden in my heart, my passionate feelings are dreams of the future and the risk of death. The dream has began to move, with the limits already heard. The road leading to that place seems to me to bestruck with dazzlingly bright light." La-Vie, Freedom
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Smash mains: [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
Kira Yoshikage

Posts : 952
Magician Credits : 106
Age : 18
Join date : 2014-10-26
Location : Harlem, Georgia, U.S.A.
Admins Comment : Pft. this guy's a Turkey.

Character sheet
Reputation:
ReputationMCsWinsLoss
Bounty0--
Notoriety2001
Fame000

https://black-whirlwind-acad.forumotion.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

Post by Lord Beerus on Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:13 pm

Touka Kirishima wrote:
Pacifica Elise Northwest wrote:"Finally, Red-Eyes has never been a top deck in the TCG,"

Blinded by being an idiot. I never stated Red-eyes were ever meta.

Yet I never said that you stated that, actually. And I didn't even imply that, I was just stating a fact that further proved my arguement. I'm not being an idiot, I am stating a valid arguement. You're just coming off as ignorant with that statement.

I read that wrong as every human does as we are not perfect~

_________________

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]|[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]|[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
Lord Beerus
MADA's Dragon Enthusiast

Posts : 965
Magician Credits : 242
Age : 17
Join date : 2015-03-21

Character sheet
Reputation:
ReputationMCsWinsLoss
Bounty0--
Notoriety000
Fame41221

http://gaminghub.forumotion.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

Post by Zaio Volnutt on Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:38 pm

Only time normal monsters were ever useful imo is during dino rabbit format and even then its just used as fodder for making beafy boss monsters with effect. Not a Gem Knight Pearl.

Arguebly i dont think you can include vanilla pendulums in it cuz while as monsters they have no effects but as spell cards they do they are better compared to non pend vanilla cuz at least you can set yourself to summon a bunch of monsters in one turn. You might as well compare them to majespecters or steel cavalry considering they are the polar opposite of what vanilla pends have.

While yes blue eyes is vanilla and did do really well competitively, its still due to having a strong 3k beater which is easily accessible and turn that beater into easy summoning fodder for stronger stun cards or power cards. Yep totally not like dino rabbits alright :Kappa:.

Finally i would like to point out the combo oriented decks. While some does use vanilla cards like angel trumpeter or neo the magical swordsman etc etc. Lets be fair tho. Thats probably gonna be at 1-2 copy as those kinds of decks have this mindset that you dont want to either open up with a vanilla nor do you want to draw into it in a tight spot period.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
Zaio Volnutt
The Iron Prince
The Iron Prince

Posts : 593
Magician Credits : 7331
Age : 21
Join date : 2015-11-07
Location : Italy

Character sheet
Reputation:
ReputationMCsWinsLoss
Bounty0--
Notoriety000
Fame253050

Back to top Go down

Re: Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

Post by Flare on Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:52 pm

1. I think it depends on how you describe as "dumb". This post doesn't do a proper job of explaining what "dumb" is. Based on what's being refuted, I assume it's defined in this context as Normal Monsters being considered weak? I might be wrong on what the definition is.

2. I don't think it's too unfair to make the point that Normal Monsters are, by design, slow and power-creeped. Not to say that they are useless, but objectively it's seen as a considerable disadvantage to not have an effect. This goes back all the way to the first season of the Yu-Gi-Oh TV show.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"No one can win with these, Joey your deck is filled with nothing but monster cards (...) duel monsters is all about combining your monster cards with your magic cards to increase their strength."

This is not to say that Normal Monsters do not have their place and niches. You've pointed out numerous points on how Normal Monsters have their use. And I can agree. I do think it would have been more an effective point to bring up Fiendish Chain instead of Skill Drain. Since Normal Monsters don't have effects as it is, which means it does virtually nothing. In Fiendish Chain's case, it cannot even target Normal Monsters because it specifically lists "Effect Monsters". Meaning Normal Monsters can still attack. I'm still just going off of what I think is what "dumb" is being defined as.

3. Overall, there wasn't really much I could have added because of a lack of understanding the refutation. I think Normal Monsters have their niche but only under special circumstances.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
Flare

Posts : 88
Magician Credits : 805
Join date : 2016-07-17
Location : VPN

Back to top Go down

Re: Why Normal Monsters Are Not Dumb

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum